Back in late December, I had the chance to interview Dr. Helen Smith, author of the excellent book, “Men on Strike“. Dr. Helen is also a blogger with PJ Media, and has specialized in serving the needs of Men in her clinical psychology practice for several decades. Due to all the extreme snow and ice storms over the past few months, I was unable to post this interview until now.

The interview, as you can see, is structured in a simple way around 10 Questions, and again as you can see, Dr. Helen and I had a lively and candid exchange. Some of my questions would be considered provocative, and I intend to explain my position and reasoning on why I asked them in the comments.

Because the names of some prominent people in the Manosphere were mentioned, including Prof. Michael Kimmel, I will make certain that they will have the chance to come on this forum and speak on their own behalf, should they so choose. I’ve already contacted Prof. Kimmel for an interview, and while I have yet to hear back from him, I will continue reaching out to him. I’ll report back the results.

I want to deeply thank Dr. Helen for her forebearance and her granting me the opportunity to interview her for the J4G audience! Also, stay tuned for more hard-hitting interviews with some of the biggest names in the Manosphere in the very near future!

OK, let er rip…

Ten Question Interview with Dr. Helen

1. Let’s get right to it – you’re a Woman, and while you’ve made it clear as to why you’re involved in Men’s Rights issues both on your blog at PJ Media and in your book “Men on Strike”, I wanted to get your take on what seems to be a growing trend of late regarding the presence of Women in the Manosphere; what do you make of this? For my part, I’ve gone on record with my skepticism and ambiguity, chief among the reasons for that being that I don’t see such Women directly confronting Feminists and the like; they seem to be preaching to the choir to me. In my view, I think the single best way Women can be friends to Men’s Rights concerns is by openly confronting their sisters, in ways big and small. What say you?

DR. HELEN: We are all individuals and I think there are many different ways that women can help in the fight for men’s rights. Everyone has different skills that are useful in a variety of ways that may or may not have to do with confrontation etc. Why should I have to use my skills in a certain way just because I am female? I choose to use them as I wish.

In writing my book, I talked with activist Carnell Smith who said that when it came to changing the paternity laws in the state of Georgia, he was surprised at how many women were involved in his campaign. Some of the women were grandmothers, mothers and wives of men who had been unfairly forced to pay child support for children who were not their own. The women were important in making the changes as they showed up, were vocal and cared. Men, he said, also had a variety of skills. Some were very angry and less verbal and he put those men to work actively protesting and marching around the State Capital to let the government know that they were treating men unfairly. Other men were more verbal and those men wrote letters to politicians and did tasks that suited their verbal skills.

Why as a woman do I have to “confront my sisters”? Let someone else do that. I have little interest in confronting radical feminists; it is a waste of my precious time. I would rather use my particular skills and time to educate and motivate the troops, those men who understand what is happening and who want to change things. I also spend time talking with men one-on one and through email about their concerns because this is important to me. I recently got a wonderful letter from a reader who said that prior to reading my book, he felt alone, after reading it, he felt that someone understood what he felt and that he was not alone in his frustration. That letter made my day.

2. In your book, “Men on Strike” you mention a number of authors who have written about “child/men” in our time: Kay Hymowitz, Hanna Rosin and Leonard Sax, to name a few. In particular, your citation of Prof. Michael Kimmel caught my eye, because I had read both his “Guyland” and his more recent “Angry White Men“, where he makes the case that, as the name of the book infers, White Men writ large are just sore losers in the Brave New World that is 21st century America, that they should just get over it, and that their scapegoating of Feminists, Minorities and Gays is all barking up the wrong tree. Are you familiar with Kimmel in general, “Angry White Men” in particular, and what do you think about both insofar as your thesis is concerned?

DR. HELEN: I am familiar with Michael Kimmel and I do not care much for “Guyland” as it seeks to make men look like overly- indulged frat boys who do nothing but fart and act in immature ways that must be curbed by society. I care even less for his premise in “Angry White Men.” I must admit that I have not read the full book but if it is as biased as “Guyland” and from the book description, it seems to be–then I have to say that this man is a hater of men, an “Uncle Tim” type who gets his kicks in the academic world by kicking men to the curb and making women feel good about themselves. His books get in libraries and probably get used as a textbook because it tells those in academia what they want to hear: men suck and he can tell them how and why.

3. Late last year, up in Canada during an event called the Monk Debates, Hanna Rosin, Camille Paglia and other Women gathered to “debate” the question of whether it was “the End of Men” or not; now, I’m biased when I say I’m something of a stan for Prof. Paglia, who followed up her appearance at Monk with a piece for Time magazine (which, in turn, was followed by a piece by Rosin, which generated quite a bit of buzz). What struck me as very odd about the “debate” was the utter lack of Women like yourself on the panel – Libertarian/Conservative, or otherwise not towing the sociopolitical line that so many Feminist Women seem to cling to in these days and times. Why do you think that is? Are Women like yourself being deliberately left out of these “debates” and other public forums? Would you like to be part of such forums?

DR. HELEN: I think Christina Hoff Sommers was included in those debates and she is fairly conservative. I agree that women who are libertarian or conservative are more likely to be left out and there is also a dearth of them. Most female academics are left wing. Those who are more right-leaning probably have less of a chance in the academic world or do not want to be involved in a hostile environment.

As I said earlier, I get no joy out of confronting radical feminists who believe that men are the enemy and are often incapable of change. I think the key is to teach men to psychologically fight back and to educate the public to change their perception of how men should be treated. Once the idea becomes common place that men deserve and need reproductive freedom and other rights, just like women, then change will follow.

4. Going back to Kimmel, he asserts that a chief failing of the Men’s Rights Movement, is their, to be frank, racism, classicism and homophobia; he argues that the MRM is largely a middle-to-upper middle class, straight White Male thing, which actively eschews the inclusion or involvement of Men of Color, Gay Men, or Men from the Working Classes. Given that I am known by some as “the Blackest Man of the Manosphere”, I must say that Kimmel has a quite valid point. In your book, while you do mention Men of Color, it seemed rather clear to me that you spoke more to White Men who were more in line with what Kimmel has said in his book “Angry White Men”; this, despite the fact that you interviewed Men across the country. I am curious as to why you didn’t seek out, to be frank, Men like me? I ask because, it has always been my view that Men of Color in particular have a unique contribution to make in the MRM saga; as we go, so go our White brothers. In your view, do you see this as a major problem for the MRM to resolve, or no, and why?

DR. HELEN: I did talk to some Men of Color in my book, for example, Carnell Smith, who I mentioned earlier is African American and so were several interviewees such as a man named “Jerry” in the end of the book who I used as an example of a man who understood how to use the legal system to make sure that he was not charged with unfair child support or false domestic violence charges.

I think that what Kimmel is attempting to do and what many anti -men’s rights types want to do is make the MRM look like a bunch of nasty racists who do not include others and some of them might even be (gasp) Republicans! It is a way of marginalizing the MRM even further. This is a mind-hit being used to make the MRM seem out of the mainstream and weird. It is anything but. Millions of men and some women across the US believe that men are entitled to reproductive rights, due process and liberty just as women are.

I think that the MRM can cut across all demographic groups because as you mention, Men of Color have much to add and many of them have encountered severe sexism in the form of domestic abuse charges and jail time for lack of child support payments for kids that are not even their own. Many Men of Color in the NFL and sports world are keenly aware that women can falsely accuse them of rape and paternity fraud is so rampant that Kanye West has a whole song written about it. I have come across many Men of Color in my work who have been treated unfairly by the legal system in domestic disputes, so much so that they have a sense of learned helplessness about such issues. I would hope that all men would be welcome in the MRM.

5. Following up on my question above, I note that you cite two very well known bloggers in the Manosphere, who would be considered to fit Kimmel’s characterization like the proverbial hand in glove: Chateau Heartiste, formerly known as Roissy, and Vox Day, of the blog Alpha Game. Both have been cited for their racist views of people of color, and neither seem particularly interested in being inclusive of Men of Color under their tents (in fact, I would go so far as to say that they are both actively hostile to such inclusiveness – I say this based on direct observation and experience of both). As noted above, their astute observations and the like, many of which I do agree with, are utterly undermined by their racism, and gives folks like Kimmel, et al a smoking gun with which to discredit the entirety of the MRM cause. I am curious to know if you had known this prior to the completion of your book, and if so, why you found it necessary to cite them as sources in any event?

DR. HELEN: I don’t have any reason to believe that Roissy or Vox Day are “racist.” I do think that they are astute observers of male and female behavior in today’s society and that is why I chose to include them in my book.

6. Last month, you briefly responded to an article I wrote for J4G, called “The MGTOW Mystique“. In it, I made the point that Black Men had been “going their own way” for decades, and in the Black community, this practice was known as “Going Ghost”, as opposed to the White Male community’s “Going Galt” designation. You seemed to take exception with my discussion of Brothas Going Their Own Way, as I had noted that Black Men, for reasons that I think I have my finger on, aren’t as inclined to make a lot of noise about these kinds of things in the way that White Men will. I wanted to ask you to please elaborate as to the nature of your disagreement with my position?

DR. HELEN: I am not sure why you think I disagree with you. I think some men do “go Ghost” and others “go Galt.” I think the problem with “going Ghost” is simply that men are not fighting back and is more passive. Here is what I said:

“Going Ghost” I assume is very much like going on strike although doing a disappearing act is not as active as going on strike or fighting back, both of which I propose in my book. The men at Twitter who are using the hashtag #MeninistTwitter are certainly actively fighting back as opposed to just disappearing and “going Ghost.” And they are fighting back with humor and mockery–both excellent ways to get the point across that the war on men will no longer be tolerated any longer. Go guys!

I think that fighting back and trying to actively change how men are treated is important. Simply leaving is one strategy and maybe it is not a bad one for individual men. Eventually, women get the message and realize that there are no longer men in their lives and they are left to raise kids alone. However, women tend to look to the government as “daddy” and “husband” and because they tend to vote more, this could leave men being treated even more as second class citizens even if they decide to just disappear. If the government needs to placate millions of women by punishing men, it might just do so, even if the men have gone underground.

7. In your book, “Men on Strike”, you make what I consider to be a number of highly salient points, but one of them really jumped out at me: the destruction of Male Spaces. I just happen to be prepping a piece about the importance of Men asserting their right to boundaries and personal space in their lives, as it’s my view that Black Women, as a group, do not respect this about Black Men. I wanted to get your take on “street harassment” in our time; I see it as yet another attempt to push (unwanted) Men out of the public square, along with all the things you’ve written along these lines. Why do you think Women seem so very intent to be interlopers onto the spaces of Men in our time?

DR. HELEN: I think that women do not like the idea of men forming groups because they have learned that it is imperative to keep men isolated and alone. It starts with a society that is afraid for men to get together like they did in the old days as there is strength in numbers. If men no longer go to the Elks club or have all-Male areas to hang out, they cannot band together and make changes that might not benefit only women and their enablers. Men’s groups are made fun of and marginalized in any way possible so that they have no political or cultural clout. It could also be that some women are jealous if a man is with other men. He might get other ideas about women or pick up “unsavory” habits that she does not want him to have.

If he is kept friendless and isolated, he is less likely to stray or to make any demands in the house and more likely to see things her way. The society reinforces this stereotype by showing men on TV and in the movies as a bunch of immature a**holes who get into trouble and act like imbeciles if they get together. Then academic types like Michael Kimmel come along to further brainwash the masses into thinking that all guys are morons and dangerous out in groups so perhaps it is best to keep them under society’s thumb with strict draconian laws and legal sanctions.

8. I am curious if you are familiar with the case of Mr. Charles Ramsey, who was the Black Man who rescued one of the prisoners held hostage, for years, in the home of Ariel Castro; I wrote about the matter which appeared online. I made the case that Ramsey’s treatment by the Feminist-informed media and the like, drove home the point that it didn’t pay to be a White Knight; the incentives was far outweighed by the costs. What do you say about his situation, and what it says about the larger culture in our time?

DR. HELEN: I have not read this case –sorry.

9. Though you didn’t directly address the issue/question of Pickup Artists, I thought it would be good to ask what you think of them, and the corpus of knowledge they and other Men draw on to enter into the (sexual) relationships they desire. As you well know, both C.H. and V.D. discuss Game quite a bit, and there are other such bloggers in the Manosphere who tend to focus on these matters as well, such as RooshV, and Rollo Tomassi. For our part at JFG, we too discuss Game-related matters quite a bit. Not surprisingly, those on the Feminist-informed-and-allied Left tends to see Game and PUAs as nothing short of evil, LOL. I wanted to get your take on Game, PUAs and the like; your thoughts?

DR. HELEN: Certainly, I wish that men did not need Game to get women and that women actually responded to, and wanted to date nice and kind men but then, this is the real world and I don’t think it works that way for the most part. I am not against Game and don’t see it as evil. It is not a bad thing for shy or younger men to learn so that they can develop some confidence with women. Feminists and some leftists hate Game because it often works. They want to think that women are more evolved than that when it comes to choosing men but alas, that is not often the case and the success of Game makes that abundantly clear. Perhaps their own anger is that they are so easily manipulated. I have actually referred some young men to books by PU artists and they are often helpful in confidence building with women.

10. In your view, where do you see the MRM going from here? It seems that 2013 was a big year for the ‘sphere, with various corners of it getting mainstream coverage and exposure. Is there anything you see as challenges for the MRM to address and confront?

DR. HELEN: I think the MRM will grow and is getting to be more mainstream. When people ask me what I do, I proudly state that I am a “Men’s Rights Activist “ and many seem more curious than anything. Some years ago, that would probably not have been the case. I would have gotten a weird look and silence.

I think that there needs to be more organization in the MRM. I am not much of a joiner and I think many men are not either. However, without numbers of people who want change, not much will happen. The challenge is for men and the women who believe, as I do, in justice and equality between the sexes, to get together to invoke change, both at the state and federal level. We are seeing progress; for example, A Voice for Men is sponsoring an International Men’s Conference in Detroit this June.

OBSIDIAN: Thank you so much for your time, Dr. Helen! If I may, you’re doing the Lord’s work

DR. HELEN: Thank you very much for the interview. Helen

References:

Is The Ratcheted Life Worth Living? Living Contradictions And Their Consequences

What the Greeks and Plato Thought About ALPHA

Why The Other Guys Always Get The Girls

The Dating Game Vs Girl Game

I Don’t Kiss On The First Date

How To Handle A Nuclear Rejection In The Age Of Social Media

The Complex Nature of Sexiness and Its Impact On The Dating Game

How Women Can Stay Visible And Attractive As They Age

What Radical Honesty In Modern Dating Would Really Look Like